Shuxian: Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed for the Asian American United Storytelling Project. As I've mentioned, we are collecting stories from people who have relationships with Chinatown to show people the beauty and diversity in our community and to showcase how important Chinatown is to us. This will be a part of a public exhibit. The stories will live online as a part of a public database. Let’s start with, what do you do for a living?

Lei: I am a school teacher at an elementary school. 

Shuxian: Where do you live?

Lei: I am currently in Abington.

Shuxian: Like Penn State Abington,that's really far. And your family also lives there. Were you originally living there?

Lei: Actually, I was in New York for a couple of years, then moved over to Philadelphia. So I've stayed in Philadelphia for a very long time, and my children were also born in Philadelphia. I mean, we were all in Philadelphia.And then we moved out a little bit.

Shuxian: You work in Chinatown but you don’t live in Chinatown. Do you have relationships with people who work and live in Chinatown?

Lei: When I was younger, I moved from New York when I was in fourth grade. So, from fourth grade on, I've worked in Chinatown. I was among those young people who did a lot of child labor work. I worked in garment factories. But I did a lot of that when I was in New York, when I was younger with the family. And then when it came to Philly, I was considered old enough in fourth grade to be able to travel down Chinatown.

I lived in northeast Philly. I was able to take the train and everything to come down here to work on the weekends. And  over all the breaks, spring break, winter break, summer break, whatever breaks. That's what I did. So I felt a lot closer to Chinatown than the northeast because much of my spare time was here in Philadelphia in Chinatown.

Shuxian: And you said that you were working at a garment factory here in Chinatown. Do you remember where?

Lei: The locations I have worked in, I remember before they used to be on Arch Street. What was on Race? They used to be above and then they were all converted into more apartments. 

Shuxian: Do you remember other buildings that were there? Is it much different now?

Lei: Chinatown now? Not a whole lot different. I mean, it's still a similar layout except that we have more stores now than before.  And I know many of the restaurants that were the older ones have been closed down. There are a lot of changes in the cuisines that used to be more Guangdong province. Now it's a variety. So it's changed in that sense and definitely didn't have all those extra hair salon salon products and none of those were around. I’m trying to remember, there were one or two grocery stores and small produce stores. Not as big as what they have right now. There are so many, like every corner

Shuxian: Do you have a time frame from when this is around?

Lei: Nineties? I’m 77. So not that old. But, yeah, in the 1990s I was here in Philly. In 1991, no before that. 1990 to like 2000. No, 2000 I was in New York already. I went back to college up in New York and went to Boston and bounced around and came back to Philly. So, yeah.

Shuxian: Yeah, it's funny because what you just described, my mom actually described to me. When she first came to America, it was like the 19990s as well and it was very similar to what you just said. So, as you said in the past, what made you come to Chinatown? What do you think is something that makes you come back to Chinatown again?

Lei: I definitely want to because I have three daughters myself and their lifestyles are definitely different from what I experienced. You know, they don't have to go through this financial burden I had when I was younger. So they don’t go through all of the challenges of many of the first generation immigrants, you know, they don't see it.

So I feel like it's important in the sense we were out in the northeast in Abington. It's not as diverse in terms of, you know, socioeconomic and racial as well. So I think it's important for them and that was also a reason why I wanted them to be at FACTS [school] because I want them to be able to build up that identity piece, you know, and Chinatown is really the physical visual hub for that.

And even if we were together with families or friends or whatever outside, inside it’s different. You don’t have the massive visual impact. Like whoa, this is a really large community. There are lots of people who really value and feel that this is something you need that they can be part of, which is something you can't see outside of Chinatown. And I think that's really important for many second generation or third generation [kids], for them to feel that this is a place to bring them, to be part of many of the festivals and to be able to ritualize some of those culture aspects that we want to pass on. 

I feel like they are very important to help me strengthen my self assurance of who I am and who I want to be and come in terms with myself, physically and emotionally. I feel like for them, I want them to be able to have those as a backup, to affirm those. So that's why it's important to have Chinatown around, because it is for all those who feel like, this is not really my community, when they live in a suburb and other areas. Where can I have that? Get that sense? Like I belong and people and I share something similar. This would be it. 

Shuxian: I absolutely agree. And as you say, this is about how you want your kids to experience the cultural heritage of our race and our identity.  s there a place in Chinatown that is special to you, that represents this culture?

Lei: I have walked around a lot where the old AAU office is, every time i walk around and tell them this is where the old AAU office was. This is where a small group of people who passionately believed in the community, building the community sense. Where they were and what we did, because I was an AAU youth when I was in high school and there was a garden next to the old complex. There was a garden and we tried to take over it and tried to build stuff. Their seniors would come through and try to grow stuff there and I would tell them that. So they understand the process of change over the years and what it became like. We didn't have all those big complexes, I think they're lower price for many of the seniors to live in. That was not the case. There was none of that, none of that extra support for the community and that comes out of people who actually push for them.

And I want them to see how that changed because of people wanting to do the movement and start it up. I tell them about the factories and I say, when you walk around, you're not just looking at what's down here, you want to see what's up there, who's living up there? Why would they be choosing to live here? I do a lot of those. So they're a lot more informed about what they see. So it's not just like going through something from the story and you're done. To understand what is behind and even those who work in the store, why are they choosing to work here? What options do they have, so that they're more thoughtful about what they see?

For them to question like, why do some of our teenagers, including yourself if you might want to come hang out here? Why? And when they have these places for the teenagers to come hang out, because that's where they feel a comfort at home. So those are the kind of conversations I feel like I can have all the time with my own kids. 

And not to say there's only one place where I feel is most important to me. I feel like every angle, every street you go to is really important. I'll be able to point out some of the doctors. It’s not easy to be an Asian doctor, to be surviving in our larger community. But like here are a few, how long have they been around?

If they have a problem, we have to really go find people, find someone to translate it. It was not easy. Now that there’s a new clinic, it's accessible for the Chinese women, for Asian women to be able to go. I can go there for any problem, you know, women's health and not have to go crazy looking for somebody else. Things like that are examples of how we have change and how important they are to the whole community and those all are very important places. So I would not be able to pinpoint like, OK, what is your favorite place? I can't because I feel like every corner you go to, there's something very significant explaining the changes of our Chinatown community to the people who are part of the community. 

Shuxian: Do you think these changes are important to how the community can continue to thrive in Chinatown?

Lei: Totally, of course. And I think hopefully with the young people see them as important, that they will continue to help build and expand in that area and expand beyond. What else do we need for the community? You know, what other forms of entertainment that will be needed for the seniors who will continue probably live close by to this hub. You know, what else can we do? What else can you provide? What else are you willing to provide?

Shuxian: If you had the chance or the ability to provide these things, what would you provide?

Lei: Chinatown? Honestly, I am an advocate for seniors more so than young people. I feel like young people have a long way, they can still change and they can have the energy. They know that they can have more access to change while the older generation does not. They have done enough of what they need to give out, and we need to do more for them.

Right now in our Chinatown, we have really one senior citizen home there, and the space is still very limited on what they have. You know, there's a long waiting list to get in there. There's not enough and even with that there, there's not like a big park or a space where they actually feel like it's their space to go relax and hang out.

I would like to have more of a recreation center for them that is more open. I've always thought about wanting to open up my own nursing home for seniors, a nursing home that has a big garden and a pavilion and stuff for the seniors be able to walk around and play chess or play whatever, and dance and do their tai chi or do dancing stuff, like a big open space.

The seniors feel like it's their space. You know, we don't have it around here, not for our seniors. And they're the ones who are stuck in an apartment, in the small space of an apartment. I mean, if we have no choice and they're stuck there, but it would be great if they have a physical space where they can go out of their apartment. Somewhere like that is what I really would want. 

I watched my grandparents, I took care of them and I was around them when they were old and they passed away. I was a translator for many of their appointments. I've really felt that was something that was really lacking in Philadelphia. When I was in Boston, I had volunteered in some of these senior assistant homes, where they really did a lot.

They provide a lot for the seniors. And I thought, wow, I really hope that Philadelphia will model some of that, where they have lots of resources available. Seniors living there were more alive. I felt like they were happy. Yeah, they were happier, I felt like, than the ones here. It's also because many of the people here in Philadelphia, many families and young ones are all working. They're like, as long as you're in a safe space, that's my main priority. I need to go do what I need to do. You gotta figure out a safe space. That's it. Everything else, your happiness, your other happiness is not my problem, not my priority. 

Shuxian: That's actually a really great idea. They should do that where they were going to build an arena, like a greenery place for the seniors. You got me thinking, how have some of the stores and  what's provided in Chinatown has changed? Have you seen any other changes in Chinatown over the course of the years that you've been here? 

Lei: I definitely think that diversity among the Chinese community has expanded. Before, like I said, it was more immigrants from Guangdong Province, and now there's definitely a larger mix of everybody. I feel like I know more friends who are not Cantonese speakers and I think that's really good. That's diversified the Chinese community within it, you know.

And then people are able to understand a little bit more about who came from where and why they come. So they can find similarities like, oh, you came from that region, I come from here. But, you know, we still have a lot of things in common. We still go through the same struggles, you know. So I think that sense is stronger than what it was in the past. In the past, they still had the Fuzhou here and whoever is over there. They weren’t connected in that sense. I feel like by now, I wanna say to support your community, you can support my group, we can be stronger together. So I definitely feel that it has changed more.

Shuxian: You said you've been here for the 20, 30 years around. So in those 20-30 years, there have been bigger developments such as the Vine Street Expressway and Convention Center. Do you feel these structures and developments have affected you or the community in any way?

Lei: I'm sure it affected the community. Because I live outside of Chinatown, it didn’t directly affect me, but it affected the community in terms of what place they have to be able to expand. It limited the jobs, limited the people's connections here. You know, it definitely caused a lot more disruption to that. Definitely. But to me, because I lived outside, it didn't impact me directly in that sense.

Shuxian: Do you think it lessened the connection between the community? 

Lei: I actually would have hoped that when you have these interjections, it actually brings them closer, that they recognize we have a problem that we're all facing together. We should bond together and try to figure out what to do. But that was not the case, where it's seen by the majority. People did not really talk like what we have nowadays. People and all these different wechat groups that you can use for opinions, everyone bouncing back a lot. Before that, that wasn't the case. There were a lot of limits to how you communicate these issues or bond and collect power, you know, we didn't have that. So I guess when you have these issues, you really needed AAU to bring it out to the surface and then you're like, oh, yeah. Now I know that is happening. Otherwise, the other groups wouldn't know.

So to answer that question, did it affect us or how? I'm sure it did but it wasn't loud enough. People were not voicing it loud enough to be visible, like, oh, this really disrupted their life or disrupted their sense of belonging or the community's sense.

Shuxian:  And seeing the similarity between then and now, I'm sure you've heard of the arena. Do you think building the arena will affect Chinatown in a way?

Lei: I think any major construction to a community will always have some sort of impact. And the problem is the impact may not be seen immediately. It takes years, a couple of years to see how they change because, if it’s built, they probably would restructure all the layout. Definitely it will impact a lot. And like some of you said, many of the businesses and the business owners and such, they may have to move out. They may even feel like people are going to come here to Chinatown for the wrong reason or for something different. They're not going to come to, you know, support my business. They're gonna have to move out or they will move out because they feel like for their survival, they're gonna have to move out. So that definitely would impact them. And in the long run, it probably might create some more of the safety issues for the youth.

The families may not be as supportive of their youth coming down here to hang out. That definitely will have an impact on the youth. And then also of course, the traffic. I was talking about the geography, the location will change the dynamic and change the layout of the whole area. Many of them, if they choose to need more space, they probably might take down many of the apartments where the people are renting or living here. They would have to move out if they increase the prices because that's their strategy to push you out. That will force people out. It will change, you know, it will definitely change, and not necessarily for the better at all. But again, I think many of those impacts people may not see them right away. It would take a couple of years for them to see how it's changed physically, because of the people's movement.

Shuxian: I know how you were talking about earlier, how these projects will affect the community. Do you think this arena that could happen, will the community in Chinatown right now come together to retaliate? So it will perhaps bring the community together more?

Lei: I hope that would be the case. I think if enough voice, yes, and enough information are out there about it. And I think if you guys are able to reach out to the different groups that are not  necessarily living in and other ones nearby that utilize this area and this community, they definitely could bring them. We can connect them and then the force would be stronger and greater. Definitely, I believe in that.

I think it's a matter of how that information goes out to them. Like I was saying, if many of those who live outside, who don't see, have the same connection I did because I've lived here so long and I work here–if they don't feel they have that connection, they will not feel the impact. They will not see the urgency to be part of that movement, you know. But I mean, sadly that is the reality.

Shuxian: Going back to how you’ve been here for such a long time, do you think over the years that your relationship or your thoughts about Chinatown has changed in any way?

Lei: Has it changed? Hm, I mean, compared to when I was younger, I see this more of like a work space. It’s different, it was actually also not just a work space. I felt like it was a sad space because this is where I see all the other new immigrants working really hard in bad conditions and in factories and, you know, in really heated cold environments, long hours.

That was sad to see, you know. But right now it's different. Many of the factories have moved out and sadly they moved out and many of the laws have changed too, you know, in terms of hours, in terms of working conditions. So it's not the same. But right now I see more life you know, there’s more joy to this place.

Like I said, it's a sense of validating all the hard work and to see what the fruit right now is for the younger generation to be able to experience. To enjoy this place, this community sense, you know, a place where they can feel the sense of belonging in community. So it has changed, I guess it's better.

Shuxian: And do you think even throughout this change, do you think the cultural aspect of Chinatown has remained the same?

Lei: The culture aspect? Hm, definitely there’s more. I definitely think the more ritualized meaning that as a community, as a Chinatown community, we are publicly sharing and experiencing many of the cultural rituals that are deep in many of the different Chinese communities. I mean, there are definitely more rituals that are coming out, which was not the case before, you know.

So that definitely has changed a lot. We are definitely more ritualized, meaning, even with Mid Autumn, it's become a ritual. It's a ritual that is brought out and not only brought out but expanding, and now more and more people are learning about all of it and cherish it and really appreciate having those visually celebrated in the community.

So it's definitely more visualized, ritualized, even Lunar New Year. Those are the things that make some people start feeling it's a place where they're safe enough to share some of their rituals, share some of the stuff that they value.  And that's the kind of comfort, community since Chinatown changed, which wasn't that strong before. It's definitely the case now.

That's why I feel even for the younger people. When I was at that festival, I saw a bunch of young people and I'm like, for them, it's empowering for them because they're like, wow, there's so many people, not just my family. I would question why my family does this, but look at all these people doing the same. That really put in their head, in their mind and heart, like I should also value it too, and I don't need to ostracize myself because I thought that was something only my family does. I know everybody does it too, and they really see it's a big deal, you know. So that is the kind of sense that was in here before, but now I hope it continues to add more. I mean, there's so much more. We say China is so huge with 50 different ethnic groups here and there and everywhere, there's so many different cultural pieces that I wish they slowly bring more out and people embrace them, and really expand their sense of cultural identity. Not just because one thing I worry about is for my own children, it's like, I don't want them to grow up and feel like in the U.S. there is nothing about them that is valued. There is so much more, you know, and that's what I hope that the younger generation can get from Chinatown and being part of Chinatown.

Shuxian: Do you think these community activities can continue to further bring together these different ethnicities? I know some parts of China have their own festivals. Do you think just mixing or just having these festivals is what can bring these communities together?

Lei: Oh, definitely. Of course, I think, for example, in my Chinese class, my goal is not necessarily language. Ok, a language acoustic takes time, takes a lot of exposure and practice. But my goal for my program is really to build a sense of belonging and desire to know themselves. Even with all my non-heritage students, who are non-Chinese students, they feel that they can question. They learned the What, Why, When, and How for others and put that for themselves, to connect. So even though they're not Chinese or they're not people from a specific region, they're learning about and they questioned and figure out and understand themselves better.

So it's not direct but it's a reference, so it helped them also build their identity. I feel like my students over the years, I feel like I can feel them a lot stronger about who they are. I can feel it, the pride is there because they're building it up. We’re slowly building it and they have a stronger sense of self identity, which they probably didn't have or wouldn't have if I didn't sort of slowly feed it to them, you know, and guide them to that. So, same thing with the community. If they were to do more and more, it slowly builds up and strengthens it.

Shuxian: You’re doing these cultural exposures to your students to help them connect to their or other cultures. I know how you said earlier, a lot of people just come here for the food, for grocery shopping, which is great, but to have more cultural aspect in Chinatown itself would allow people to appreciate Chinatown more than just past Chinatown itself. 

Lei: Yeah. And I think that has to be done in a very well organized fashion. If you wanna hit home with the youth, because I mean, in general, I'm not saying that all high school students are like that, but the mindset on a more surface level is, I'm here to hang out with my friends and that's it. So, whatever stuff you want to recognize it, you need to really have specific goals and activities, or the festival has to have specific things that drive them to think about those goals of yours.

Otherwise, then it's just another hangout, fun kind of thing, you know, and for the adults they will feel it. They don't need that sort of guidance. But if our aim is for the younger ones to really carry it on, we really need to hit them with those questions and know why we are doing this. That’s really important. But definitely, I think there's so much more to be done.

Shuxian: Going back, other than what you can add to Chinatown, such as the nursing home. What more cultural aspect would you bring to Chinatown? 

Lei: I love the fact that they're having the dragon boat things, you know. I think we should involve some other people in it as well other than you tough people. I think there's so much more, like do you still see people doing tai chi and stuff? I was actually thinking about that. I feel like community building activities, I think that should be more of it. I wish you guys or whoever can organize them every weekend. It would be cool if you guys organize whatever event.

Shuxian: My mom used to go to one. 

Lei: Really? It would be really cool if you would gather a lot of elders, a lot of people to come.

Shuxian: They gather in a large open area and they just dance. 

Lei: It's a park dance. They call it a park exercise. You don't need a lot, you don't need money but you just need space, you need people. And now those are the kind of things that, if you do it habitually, you know, every weekend, then the seniors know that. I would probably want to take part. I am a part of their generation but like many of them, in between the fifties, sixties, seventies, they would love to come take part. And those are the ones that will grab the kids along. You know, they're the ones who will be able to connect and strengthen and push for more of the cultural pieces. And that will make it more lively and make Chinatown be like, I have a reason to be there.

This is the thing that we should do. You know, not even tai chi. We used to have someone who did tai chi before. It should be more, like a bigger thing. It doesn't have to be restructuring the place physically. It's about movement that involves people, I think that’s what we want, more activities that involve people. I love the fact that we have more murals and I love what they did with the plaza. I think that's very cute too. You know, it's really sweet.

My daughters, every time we walk by it, they love it. But, you know, it would be great. That's also a bigger space somewhere, and if they’re gonna do the arena now, we're gonna have less space for that. But if we have massive people visible, being part of the community, on a weekly basis or whatever, then you can say to the community or the larger community, this space is really used by a lot of people. Honored and valued by them, not just the few people who are speaking up and holding the signs to say no, but look, look how our community is being used, you know. I think more massive activity, mass movement activity, you guys should do it again, like do a whole park of or something. I love seeing many of those people. 

Wei: We need to fight against the universe and we can be able to have capacity to build this program. You know, my dream is building a better program for Chinatown, a better program for our community. 

Shuxian: So far, what you've mentioned is having these bigger festivals to allow people to come in and enjoy the culture, community aspect of Chinatown. And in this variety of people, there's gonna be people that probably have never been to Chinatown before. If you were to get in touch with one of these people that have never been to Chinatown before, and you want to introduce them or get them to come to Chinatown? In fact, how would you describe Chinatown to them?

Lei: I would say, we should go to Chinatown, hang out. So you can see how people can interact with each other, all the different ways that people interact with each other and socialize. You get to see how socialization can happen in a small space, but also very valued. The bond is stronger than what you might think, you know, or, or predict or assume because it's such a small space. I definitely would say that to them like my friends. We should go, we should go see what Chinatown is like in action.

Shuxian: I know you said you were living in Abington now. So if you had a chance, would you move your family to Chinatown? 

Lei: My girls always ask, why are we so far away? Can we just be closer? And what is the reason is because my family is out there, my brothers and my dad, they're all out there. So it's a matter of just being closer to them. The other piece I want them to have is to be able to have quick access to their own family. I want the younger generation–because my nieces and nephews, they all go to different schools–being able to get together and have them bond is really important to me. Friends down here, you can do it. You can come out any other time. But family, if you don't work on a relationship and pave the way for the younger one, they would slowly disconnect. For them to be able to see their grandfather and aunts and uncle and know their roles and how we bond together, I think it's a priority for me. So I would not move, even though I value here, but I would not because I also want that, if I'm gone, I want them to be able to have a strong bond already with the family. If they have a strong bond wherever they move, it wouldn't matter. I mean, it would matter, but the impact won't be as strong because they have the foundation of family bonds already. So I wanna make sure I have that firm foundation in place. You can go anywhere else you want, you can fly all you want, but you need to know you're grounded in your family.

Shuxian: That's exactly what my mom said. We were contemplating if we wanted to move to Chinatown or northeast, and my mom was like, your family is in Chinatown. We're moving to Chinatown.

Lei: Yeah, that is so true for the older generation. Probably. That is, I mean, I'm not that old, I'm really young but for us, I think it's because we went through where we felt like family was our main support. That's what we felt, so it's really important for our kids to feel it too or feed it to them. That's the case, you know. 

Rodney: Is your family really big?

Lei: Not a lot of brothers and sisters. I only have two brothers, and my dad is in his nineties. That’s why we wanted to be within his reach. We're al 15 minutes away from each other. But all the nieces and nephews are different ages. So that's why it's important, you know,

Rodney: When you were going to school and when you were a kid, you mentioned you were in the suburbs. What was the racial makeup or were you one of the few Asians there?

Lei: Me and my cousin are the only two Asians in the entire school. 

Rodney: And what was the rest of the makeup of the school?

Shuxian: My elementary and middle school, my entire family was the only Asian family to go there. 

Rodney: So did you have the pressure to, I don't know, it’s a lot to conform?

Lei: Yes. Definitely. Like I said, when I was younger I struggled with my identity. Definitely. And then, because on the weekend, like I said, I worked here on my breaks, I worked down here. I felt like I really hated it. I hate it, being part of this struggling group. I hate it. And all my best friends were all white, you know, growing up. And they still are my best friends. They're all not in Philly, they're all in different states, but they are still my best friends. I felt that they were able to allow me to be comfortable being myself and trying to question myself. But at the same time, I felt like there are some differences, you know, there's some differences of how we can relate. Definitely it was different, it was harder at that time.

Rodney:  Were there things that happened to you, that you felt like was really racist but you tried to talk to your friends at the time and they just couldn’t understand?

Lei: No, I think when I was growing up, I felt I didn't want, I did not recognize those issues. I didn't see that. I saw them as economic issues, social status. So that was different. I did not make that connection, and I think it was much later on when I went through a new training,I questioned and made those connections myself. Yeah. Those are very important experiences for me to be able to tell my own daughters that they don't feel yet because they are here at FACTS. They don't feel it. So it's important to prep them for that.

Shuxian: It's quite interesting that I feel like my experience is pretty similar to yours, because I grew up in a Chinese restaurant in an African and Hispanic neighborhood. And at that time, my family was probably the only Asian family within the entire neighborhood. It was like Kensington and Fishtown, which is white on one side and then African American and Hispanic on the other side. There was no other Asian,  and then it was like a culture shock to me when I came to Central [High School] and I was like, wow. Yeah, there really is some difference. Do you think that is one of the reasons why you wanted to bring your kids to FACTS, to have them experience it, a lot of Asians and other races?

Lei: Yes, I felt it was important for them to, in the early years, have a strong foundation of a sense of knowing who they are and who they can connect with. There are many people they can connect with. That’s also why I wanted them to stay here and not put them in a private school. That's definitely the reason. And hopefully from what I think, I'm not sure yet, the early years are your most important, relevant years for identity foundation building. So if you have a strong sense of those, you felt strong when you entered where you are, you have strength ready in yourself to act with courage. To confront or to be able to know how to respond and not self blame, and be able to be more reflective, you know. I feel myself growing up,  I went through the whole identity crisis of not knowing how to question, to be reflective. 

Shuxian: It is convenient now since you work here, you drive your kids here for school. How about in the longer run, for example, when they hit high school?

Lei: So, now it's a question about practicality and reality. Like, the whole high school selection piece sucks. I will worry about safety issues for my children. And I no longer have the energy that I used to have. I can be bouncing back and forth. That's reality. Yeah.

Shuxian: Do you think they'll lose their culture?

Lei: I don't think so. Not for my children. I feel like I've been feeding them so much of that, they wouldn’t, as we travel to different places. I talk a lot about raising questions about many of those issues and the different places. So they're very reflective. My two older ones, not my youngest one, the two older ones are definitely very reflective about what they see and how they process what they see. I think they're ready.