Celine: Could you tell me a little bit about yourself? Your hobbies? What do you like to do?

Fang Ziju: I am a housewife. I have two teenagers. They are 16 and one is 14.

Celine: Could you tell me a little bit about how you grew up or your childhood?

Fang Ziju: I grew up in Indonesia. I wasn’t brought up here. I immigrated here with my husband. I followed my husband to come here.

Celine: Do you mind telling me a little bit about your experience in Indonesia?

Fang Ziju: I lived in Indonesia and Malaysia. It has more of a Chinese culture. That's the reason I chose Chinatown too!

Celine: So when you moved, when you came to the U.S., did you first come to Philly?

Fang Ziju: No, Los Angeles. We went to Los Angeles and then it was a bit too big for us and it's so crowded. 

Celine: Did you come to Philly for a certain reason? After Los Angeles? 

Fang Ziju: I followed my husband, so when I followed my husband —

Celine: Did you know if there's a larger community in Philly?

Fang Ziju: At that time no. We lived in South Philly at that time. And then after that, we lived in South Philly, then we found out that there's a Chinatown here.

Celine: Could you tell me your experience when you first came to the U.S.?

Fang Ziju: The people are nicer. It is clean and the air is fresher.

Celine: Could you tell me a little bit about what you do for a living? And where do you live now?

Fang Ziju: I am a kitchen [manager] here in Paris Baguette, but I live in Chinatown right now. I moved from South Philly to Chinatown about 10 years ago. My children started in kindergarten.

Celine: Could you tell me a little bit about how they grew up in Philly and their experiences?

Fang Ziju: When we were raising them in South Philadelphia, it was fairly divided like Asian, Vietnamese, but not a lot of the Chinese community there. And the district school around there, I didn’t really like it. So I moved to Chinatown so mycChildren can go to the school, the public school and they have half Chinese community and half white people community. And in the middle, African American people, I want them to have a voice. I want us as parents to have a voice. I believe that would impact my children.

Celine: Definitely, definitely.Could you tell me a little bit how how having a voice is important to you?

Fang Ziju: It’s very important because, as you know, Asians are very easy targets for many people. That's the reason why I moved from South Philly to Chinatown because over there, in summer at night, or winter, it gets dark at like five o'clock. You would be so scared to go outside without your husband; I had two little children at that time.

You would be an easy target to get robbed if you bring a purse or phone. But especially because you have two kids, you don't want them to grow up and see that. So you move here with more people, most Chinese people will help you.

Celine: So how was Chinatown able to make you feel safe?

Fang Ziju: I have my own people. You speak the same language, they will feel belonging. And we have to learn English, of course, that's the way we can be as a bridge.

Celine: Could you explain more about what Chinatown means to you?

Fang Ziju: Chinatown is the place that I live and make my living. And it's a place where I teach my kids about Chinese culture. That's the most important thing you have. They have to know where they come from.  What is the value of them to see their value? So you can be your own. I know they will become a new generation after me. But you have to know your root first. 

Celine: Is there a certain place in Chinatown that is really important to you or your kids?

Fang Ziju: Yes, I think this community is a very important thing, like you have your AAU, PCDC. The summer and then the community contribution at the PCDC, every Friday. If they have an event, I will always ask them to volunteer to go there, better than hanging out. That's part of the community I think.

Celine: And could you explain some of your relationships with the community, like who specifically are you really close with or certain people in the community that really feel like a family to you?

Fang Ziju:  Right now I'm mostly doing the PCDC because they have the feedback, the tax service. Like me when we are working, we have to report the taxes, so PCDC will usually help us. They have VITA helping us to fill out the taxes and they have the after-school program, they have the basketball arena inside, they let the children play, they even have the badminton over there. So it is very good.

Celine: That's great. Over the years in Chinatown, has there been like a place that your family goes to often or just hangs out?

Fang Ziju: Often we like to go to the store, or Franklin Park, the park over there. But they are doing  construction mostly right now. So there is no more green space. We like to eat around here, of course, and I love the market too. 

Celine: Yeah, me too. So how long have you been in Chinatown?

Fang Ziju: 10 years? Around 10 years.

Celine: So, in that 10 years, have you seen a lot of changes in Chinatown? What changes have you seen? 

Fang Ziju: More traffic, of course. And Franklin Square, the park, they mostly are greener, but now it's the construction. They do a lot of the lantern things, I know that on the weekdays you can go there. But do they know our community likes to picnic over there? Now we cannot do that often.

Celine: And how do you think your relationship with Chinatowm has changed in the past 10 years?

Fang Ziju: No change. But if I think it’s changing, I think I will move.

Celine: So have there been any other big developments that have affected you or your family recently in Chinatown?

Fang Ziju: I think for the past three years they had the mall over there.It's a shopping center. It's just more crowded, more traffic. Especially on Saturday, Sunday. But it's good for my boss.

Celine: So, you think it has affected your business?

Fang Ziju: Affected the business? Yes, a little way, in a good way, in a bad way it’s the same. We don't have the parking space unless they want to pay for that.

Celine: And if you were to make any changes to Chinatown, what would you make?

Fang Ziju: Yeah, more greener! They need to fix Franklin Square, because why is it all tall buildings around here? You need some place where the little children can go and feel the fresh air. We usually, I take bring my kid to go there. They have the small park and then we can go all around and then they have the playground over there. 

Celine: And so what are your favorite parts of Chinatown and your least favorite parts of Chinatown?

Fang Ziju: My favorite part of Chinatown? Most of it, close to the Independence Center, the history called the Liberty Bell. And then we have the Fresh Market around here, even though sometimes there’s too much stress around and then the market, they always have a certain food, a lot. 

Celine: And do you have a part that you wish was better or that you don't like as much, or a part of Chinatown that was negatively affected?

Fang Ziju: Maybe, if they open the 76ers arena. The thing is, I realized there will be a lot more homeless folks around, sleeping on the sidewalk. Some of the homeless, they are not violent but some of the homeless, they are violent. There is a video of one of the homeless people, they get the rock, they try to smash our glass. They do it on the next door.

Celine: How does the 76ers arena make you feel?

Fang Ziju: It will get more traffic and it will be too crowded. You know, it's super crowded already. So when the people want to watch the game, sometimes if they win or lose, you never know. If the 76ers lose, the fans will do something, they destroy our places to trash all over my land.

Celine: And how do you think, if the 76 arena is built, it would affect your family?

Fang Ziju: Of course my children because they are teenagers. I don't want them to go violent like that and then they will see that, they will think it. That would affect them of course.

Celine: How do you think it would affect you personally?

Fang Ziju: I will get more stressed. Yeah.

Celine: What is your feeling about these large developments? Do you think, when you first came to Chinatown, you felt different?

Fang Ziju: A little bit different, maybe you can tell like, 2-3 years recently there have been more homeless, more trash all around, when they are drinking, when they eating, they are sometimes just like that. And we don't have any more trash cans in the street. 

Celine: Is there any other issues that you have experienced in Chinatown?

Fang Ziju: No, only want to make the Franklin Square more greener, and the arena? That's it. I heard they want to open the gambling around here and I do not like it.

Celine: Do you have any expectations for the future of Chinatown?

Fang Ziju: More greener. That's it. And the community is already so, so good. We are so close. 

Rodney: Why do you feel the community is really good right now? 

Fang Ziju: We have a lot of people around here, especially the old people like to go to PCDC. They have a lot of programs over there. They have Chinese Class, they have the English as a second language, and they have therapy, and they have after school programs for teenagers. I think they need to make more spaces because we have a lot of teenagers, and the Chinese parents mostly don't speak English. I speak English because I learned it from the free library. Oh, my goodness. I had to do it myself because that's the only way.

Celine: That's great. How were you able to get over the language barrier?

Fang Ziju: I go to the library at the independent one. They have the booth with the picture, you know, all for us to learn and they have the audio, everything you learn it as long as you want to learn it. If you're not doing like that you cannot learn, you beat yourself. 

Celine: I guess another question I would have is, what do you like? To see?

Fang Ziju: I want to see the library be open more hours because now they're closing a lot. They're closing a lot because of the pandemic, right? They said they are short of staff.

Celine: So how do you think the pandemic has affected Chinatown?

Fang Ziju: The effect on Chinatown? And the first time, we just so we have to close most of the three months but now we are ok, we try!

Celine: I guess another question I would have is what do you see as your goal? Like your wish for your children when they grow up in Chinatown? Do you see them staying in Chinatown or how would you wish Chinatown could be for them?

Fang Ziju: I cannot make that decision because you know the new generation, they have their own mind. What I can do is only with them, what I wish for is that they know their culture. Like I said, even though you were born American, you are still Chinese. So you need to know that you are Chinese and then you can learn the American way. Get the good one and leave the bad one, that's what I want.

Celine: Do you wanna stay in Chinatown? Do you know?

Fang Ziju: Me? I have to ask my husband about that, you know, Asian, I cannot make my own decision [alone]. You know, I thrive when my husband brings me.

Celine: Do you see yourself successful and happy if you continue to live in Chinatown?

Fang Ziju: I'm happy to live in Chinatown right now because I speak the language and I am happy with all the markets here because I'm a housewife. I cook a lot and then I can find all the products here. I work here. I make money and then I spend it here. I'm happy about the result. 

Celine: How would you describe everything that Chinatown has given you?

Fang Ziju: It is giving me a place to live, a place to work for, and the transportation is easier. It's everything, I think. I think Chinatown is where I live and I teach my kids the Chinese language from Chinatown too.

Minghui: Yeah, I'm just wondering where your kids go, like which school?

Fang Ziju: McCall, both of them, and now they will go to Palumbo. That’s the reason it's very close to everywhere and it's safe, as you can count it as a safe place to go. If there is no school, it's not good. It depends on you. You want to learn or don't want to learn. That's what I tell them. 

Celine: Have you heard of other Chinatowns and how large developments affected them?

Fang Ziju: Yes, we go to Los Angeles. Their Chinatown is bigger. So big and when we go to California, they are bigger. The Chinatown here I think is so small. It's so crowded. 

Rodney: What dialect do you speak? 

Fang Ziju: I'm Indonesian but I speak Chinese Mandarin. 

Rodney: Can your kids speak Mandarin? 

Fang Ziju: I put them in the school. My son is a little bit harder because he keeps refusing. He said it's so hard. I'm not using this language here. But I said, the people will see you as a Chinese. So you have to be able to know your language you have. And my husband is Indonesian. So tey know they can listen [in Chinese], but maybe speaking is a little bit hard. They have the dialect. But I'm trying my best.  

Celine: Do you feel like there's a strong Indonesian community in Chinatown?

Fang Ziju: No, it's mostly Chinese? It’s mainly Fuzhou and a little bit Malaysian.

Celine: Is there anything else you would like to say about your experience in Chinatown in general or anything else you'd like to add?

Fang Ziju: Oh, no, I'm happy in Chinatown. I think that's it. But I thank you all for fighting for the 76 arena. Thank you for your voices.

Celine: Thank you. So much for your time.